85 XL600R Hesitates Bad when Warm

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85 XL600R Hesitates Bad when Warm

Post by 4Strokes » Sat Jun 04, 2016 5:52 pm

Topic: Another fussy Xl600r please read
Author: cceretti
Posted: 04/13/2004 06:26:27 AM

Hate to bother you guys with yet another 1985 xl600r question but i am new and would like a bit of advice here from all you seasoned honda owners. I just purchased this unit from a guy who had stored it over the last 10 years or so.....only 4000 miles on it. Anyway...long story short...carbs are clean..plug and cap is new. Bike hesitates terribly trying to pull off a light or whatever when it gets warm. Takes about a 10 minute drive before it happens. The plug looks good so i have almost rules carbs out. They've been gone through a dozen times. I ordered a coil for it..am i searching in the right direction. Please don't tell me it't the stator and exciter coil..that's a 600 dollar touch where i come from. Valves are set also...bike is clean and dry. Any info at all will be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Chad

Reply by kubiak on 04/13/2004 11:28:24 AM
thats a hard one,i think i would start by replacing the coil too.let us know how it turns out.

Reply by wesd40 on 04/13/2004 9:05:50 PM
Make sure the choke is opening all the way, and that the pilot screw is not set too rich. Either one would cause the bike to stumble bad off idle once it warmed up.

Reply by JetPilot on 04/13/2004 9:15:23 PM
Stator was definately the first thing to enter my mind, but dont go spend 600 bucks for a new stator. The ignition part of the stator can be rewound very easily and for about 5 bucks in materials. There are many articles on rewinding stators out there, and its not that hard.

Reply by cceretti on 04/27/2004 3:48:47 PM
Well fellas..i replaced the coil...starting is definately much easier after reading all the posts about the TDC issue...but i still get a slight(better than before the new coil tho) stumble just off idle in first gear..i.e...leaving a stop light etc. The bike seems to run fine other than that. It will actually stall if i'm not real careful when taking off from a standing start, but starts first kick after that. Is there a chance that it's losing fuel at that instance or am i still looking at a electrical problem. You guys are the brains..i am the wrench. I should mention again that this bike is completely stock with clean carbs and everything set to specs. And this stuttering only occurs after it is warmed up real good...10 mins or so. Also...it has stalled on me in the oddest situations...even when it's just sitting idling...it just quits. And it quits fast. No stuttering, just like someone turns the key off. Weird. If i keep the idle high...the problem seems to subside. I'm talking a high high idle tho...prolly 1800 rpm. All and any info is appreciated. Thanks in advance. Chad.

Reply by kubiak on 04/27/2004 7:52:49 PM
make sure your valves are adjusted right.if they are a bit tight the bike will spit and die at idle for no reason when hot once in a while but it will start back up easy.

Reply by cceretti on 04/28/2004 10:06:26 AM
Kubiak...i did set the valves...and yes i kept them a bit tight..should i back them off a bit? And can you tell me if Ricki's Stators are any good. Them seem to offer a new stator for around US130 bux. It shows that there is no epoxy coating on the coils tho. But they inform me that the wires are well insulated on their stators so epoxy is not necessary. Are they blowing smoke up my behind or are they correct? They state that the exciter(ignition) coils on the stator are wrapped with a tape. Will this unit hold up to the heat and oil in this bike? Thanks again fellas.. I should have this bike figured out soon enough.

Reply by kubiak on 04/28/2004 2:31:04 PM
i havent heard anything bad about ricky stator.i bought a factory honda and put it in and it didnt work so i took off the epoxy and the ground wire wasnt even connected! so i soldered the ground and its great now.weird that a brand new part was defective?on the valves i actually go 5 and 6 on the valve clearance instead of 4 and 5 just to be sure when it gets hot the valves close tight.when it was shutting off i think they were just 1 or 2 too tight.you should be fine with the stock settings though.i did mine a bit loose because i just did a valve job and they were seating in still.

Reply by cceretti on 04/28/2004 3:03:55 PM
5 and 6? I'm under the impression that clearances are 5 and 10?

Reply by kubiak on 04/28/2004 4:25:17 PM
on the 89 xr 600 it calls for .004 intake and .005 exhaust.i set them after about 200 miles after a valve job when they got tight.now i have about 1400 miles and they should be about right.

Reply by fishbone1 on 04/28/2004 5:16:07 PM
My 85 xr600 calls for .004 intake and .005 exhaust.

Reply by cceretti on 04/28/2004 6:07:31 PM
mine is an 85 xl600r...i was also under the impression that the heads were the same..i have the manual and it says 5 and 10....hmm any more input?

Reply by cceretti on 04/28/2004 6:35:09 PM
I'm talking in MM also...hope you guys are or we will look fairly silly..lemme check the imperial measures... ..ok .002in for intake and .004in for exhaust. Still a difference tho.

Reply by pcmartin on 04/30/2004 11:44:02 PM
cceretti I have the very same bike and I've suffered from the oppisite problem. The bike ran poor cold with the choke needing to be left on for about 10 minutes before it would run right. I found that when I got a new pilot jet from the dealer they gave me a 50 when it calls for a 65. So my bike was running lean so this leads me to beleave that your's is running rich. If you haven't changed the pilot jet I'd be looking at the float level to see that it isn't set too high (20.0mm or 0.79in) or that the pilot screw is out 2 turns. And .002 intake and .004 exhaust is correct.

Reply by cceretti on 05/03/2004 6:15:54 PM
Thanks so much pcmartin. I've been through these carbs a thousand times...everyhting seems ok. I may have the floats at about 19mm or so. When i bought the bike they were at 24mm...so i knocked em up a bit extra to try to remedy this problem? Have i gone too far. Setting the floats too high does what??? The jets are all stock. I think, just from memory that i may be at 2 1/4 turns on the screw. Is that too much also? And i do have my valves set a bit snug. Could all this together cause my bike to just up and quit with out warning? When i say it quits ...it quits. No sputters..no shudders..nothing. Just like someone shut the key off. But it fires first kick right after that. I should mention that the bike almost always fires first kick when cold too. Thank goodness for that but i still have issues. Be great to hear from you again. Thanks so much.

Reply by rg-series on 05/04/2004 10:35:06 PM
I have a stator in my 89 600 from ricky stator and I love it. Bike starts right up. Also, the two 100 watt lighting circuits are a nice thing to have and their customer service can't be beat.

Reply by DanDog on 05/06/2004 08:08:51 AM
I hate to say something like this but.. Carb, Carb, Carb...

There a lots of posts here with problems sounding like this so your not alone.
And yes the float level effects jetting and vents to.

My guess would be to make sure the float level and PILOT SCREW are close. (espessially if it starts better cold than hot) See below.

If the carbs are off the bike then make sure 200% all those hair size ports are clear. They fooled me so many times i'm still shaking my head.

GL Danny

Dont hold me to this I just copied it from my Clymer manual. #M339-5
It says, 1985-87 XR600R

pilot screw 1 3/8 turns (another section said 1 1/8 for that bike)
float level 18 mm
needle jet clip position from top
-primary 4th
-secondary 2nd
plug PH52A

Reply by pcmartin on 05/06/2004 9:42:17 PM
cceretti; I just reread one of your post,"If i keep the idle high...the problem seems to subside. I'm talking a high high idle tho...prolly 1800 rpm.".What your saying is that your bike will not run on the pilot jet once the bike warms up. I'd try turning in the idle screw a half a turn at a time and see if it gets any better. If you end up all the way in with it running better but still not 100% I'd go down a size in the pilot jet. I'm still thinking that you're too rich on the idle jet. Like I said I had gotten a pilot jet that was too small and the bike would not idle or pull from a stop light with out bogging when cold but ran fine with the choke on until it was really warmed up then it ran great. I just put the right size pilot jet (a 62), shimed the needles .015 on both carbs and went up one size on the main jet in the primary carb. And I set the float level to .77 inches on both carbs.It made a world of difference! Also set your valves to .002 intake and .004 exhaust. If they are too tight they will be held open when the motor warms up causing a loss of compression. This too will cause the bike to have no bottom end power. I hope it get it figured out so you can start enjoying it, mines beeen a blast so far.

Reply by cceretti on 05/08/2004 3:41:13 PM
Ok...i've got my needles both set one clip lower(bringing the needle higher) than stock..i can't recall if they are both at the same level but i remember changing them both one position. The jets are all stock. My pilot jet is a 65(my bike is an '85) The floats are at 20mm..so pretty close to.77inches. It calls for 20. Should i drop them down a bit? maybe 21 or something? Everyone refers to shimming the needle...does this mean bringing it even higher than the stock clips allow you to? wouldn't that cause further richening? My pilot needle is out 2 turns. I turned it in just a hair and the problem may have gotten worse. That makes me think that i'm still lean. I just don't get it. I hate asking so many times..but i still need clarification. Sorry guys. Pcmartin..keep it coming. I'll get it sooner or later. And to DanDog...my bike is an XL not an XR, but thanks just the same. And when you mention PH52A as the plug type ..you may be confusing that for the carb type on an 85-87 xr600r.

Reply by cceretti on 05/11/2004 12:36:19 PM
Another quick question. When i attempt to adjust the valves, i do as the book says. Bringing the piston to TDC on the compression stroke i do find clearance in the valves as i'm supposed to. The thing that bugs me tho is that the flywheel won't sit at the "T" mark. The engine wants to rotate a bit in either direction on it's own. It's weird..it just won't sit on that mark. Is there a chance that my timing chain is worn so bad that TDC isn't actually TDC? Or what? I'm a bit confused here. The flywheel just wants to jump ahead in both directions if i turn it to "T" and then pull the wrench off.

Reply by kubiak on 05/11/2004 7:54:06 PM
make sure you have your spark plug out,it helps it stay in place better if there is no compression in the cylinder.

Reply by cceretti on 05/12/2004 06:40:24 AM
ok..so this is normal then?
i still do need to hold it tho if i want to keep it at TDC. i've become good at finding the right size wrench to weigh it down just enough to not turn on me...thanks

Reply by pcmartin on 05/13/2004 08:12:01 AM
cceretti; Here in the USA the Xl600R came with a single clip position needle. So to raise them we have to place washers under the e clip to raise the needle in the main jet. After re-reading and re-reading your post again I'm still going to say look at the pilot circuit of the carb. If it was the choke sticking it would run poorly all through the rpm range once warmed up. If it was a lean condition it would run better warm than cold. "I turned it in just a hair and the problem may have gotten worse." isn't going to tell. You need to go in at least a quarter turn at a time, I'd start with it out one full turn from seated and ride it around until it was fully warmed up. Then go out a half turn from there to see if it's better, if it's worse then go back to one half turn out. Also what would you guess to be your altitude where you are riding? All bikes come from the factory jetted for sea level so if your let's say at 2500 feet you'd be too rich. If you'd like to try a smaller pilot jet email your address (put something about jet in the header) and I'll stick one in the mail to you. pcmartin@earthlink. As a last thought have you checked that your compression release isn't too tight so that it might be holding open the little valve?

Reply by cceretti on 05/13/2004 5:46:58 PM
PCmartin..did you have any input on the post of my engine not wanting to sit on the 't' mark on the flywheel rather it wants to roll ahead(or back) on it own. Plug out...yadda yadda. Any ideas? I've been hanging a wrench on the flywheel nut and carefully manouvering around it to keep it on the 't' mark while i adjust the valves. Anyone else encounter this strange event while doing their valves? Is there a chance that the bike would run as well as it does...carb troubles aside if i did the valve adjust with it TDC on the exhaust stroke. I don't think this is possible because i did have clearance as i should when i brought it up to TDC on what i thought was the compression stroke. ANyhting guys..anyhting at all. Big weekend coming up and i'll be damned if any KLR will outdo me..haha

Reply by cceretti on 05/13/2004 5:50:12 PM
PCmartin..did you have any input on the post of my engine not wanting to sit on the 't' mark on the flywheel rather it wants to roll ahead(or back) on it own. Plug out...yadda yadda. Any ideas? I've been hanging a wrench on the flywheel nut and carefully manouvering around it to keep it on the 't' mark while i adjust the valves. Anyone else encounter this strange event while doing their valves? Is there a chance that the bike would run as well as it does...carb troubles aside if i did the valve adjust with it TDC on the exhaust stroke. I don't think this is possible because i did have clearance as i should when i brought it up to TDC on what i thought was the compression stroke. ANyhting guys..anyhting at all. Big weekend coming up and i'll be damned if any KLR will outdo me..haha

Reply by pcmartin on 05/13/2004 10:51:31 PM
Chad I'm lazy so I don't pull the plug. I either kick it over until it's close then put the bike in gear and roll it to the mark or pull in the compression release lever and wire tie it to the bars. And you're not adjusting the valves on the exhaust stroke. If you put clearance in there on the exhaust stroke it wouldn't run, the exhaust valves would never open.

Reply by cceretti on 05/14/2004 05:35:11 AM
No...i knew i wasn't doing it on the exhaust stroke..just want everything to be clear..so the bike will stay on that mark with some careful 'farting' around will it? Good points on the wire tie and plug in trick..i like your thinking. I'm not so..how do you call it...ambitious anymore either...haha Cheers guys.

Reply by markrands on 05/17/2004 11:52:33 PM
cceretti: Have you had any success with all the help so far. More to the point, is your XL running well now?
I have a 86 XL 600 with the same problem. Runs sweet at hight revs and stalls when pulling away again.Almost like a fuel stavation problem with a backfire to wake the motorists.

Reply by cceretti on 05/19/2004 10:33:28 PM
Changed my mains to 112 and 110 instead of 118 and 115..no more hesitation..runs sweet all through the throttle..but desperate hard to start when it's hot...i'm gettin close tho. More help is needed yet. I was way too rich..i think i still am on the pilot circuit which was the point that got this whole carb teardown started but the pilots weren't available to me yesterday at my dealer..but i'm happy so far..gonna drop a size on my pilot to get her bang on. When it's hot i have to hold the throttle open a hair to get her to start...a bit too much fuel on the pilot i'm thinking...but by dropping my pilot...i think i'll have to go to something like 115 and 112 in the main...we'll see tho. Keep it coming fellas...i'm really excited to have it running so good with so little work thus far.

Reply by pcmartin on 05/20/2004 10:39:28 PM
Chad, all it would have taken is an address and a new pilot jet would have been yours. But for right now I'd turn the idle screw into one full turn out and see if that helps the hot start. Also for hot starting, you can kick it 3 or 4 times with the throttle open and the compression release pulled in to clean it out, then kick it with no throttle. I'm going to ask a freind of mine tomorrow what he uses for a jetting rule of thumb when he makes changes in altitude. Also I'm thinking that you might be better off going a little bigger on the mains and lowering the needles to the middle clip slot. I think I read you were all the way up on the needles. When you raised the needles to the top you cause the carbs to go fully on the mains sooner. I'm a little over sea level and I'm running one size up from stock jet on the primary main and stock on the secondary main and pilot jet. A .015 shim under the needles, primary and secondary. I've squeezed the secondary activation linkage as narrow as I can and still get full opening on the secondary carb. I have a .020 over piston (601cc) with .025 milled off the dome to keep the compression down around 11.5:1 (other wise it would be 12.5:1), a ported head (just the flashing removed and the ports blended around the valve seats with a light polish on the whole port), and a Super Trap IDS slip on exhaust. With the carbs the way they are now it starts first kick every time and pulls hard up to 80 mph where it flattens out but still pulls slowly. I may try going up on the secondary main jet and see if it pulls hard a little higher.

I'm having a great time on this old thumper. I went riding with my son and some friends last weekend. Everyone was impressed on how well it ran along with the fact it always started first kick even after a couple of beers. We started from sea level and went over two mountain passes of around 7000 feet. I adveraged 63mpg for the trip with several wot blasts which was better mileage than the DRZ400, WR400,and the KTM420SX(?). Not bad since the bike and I out weigh two of them by almost 100 pounds.

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